Posts by Vernon Williams

19

Seems this Forum was started by Pro-Witness people, what say you?

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

if you go back to the original posts, it looks a whole bunch different than it does now.

the posts are like being at a sunday kingdom hall greeting session.. anyone care to comment?.

Vernon Williams

The beer thread is, now, up to 250 posts. That is an indication that this board is "pro witness."

Cheers,

V

38

The Underbelly is exposed...........

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

what proactive things have you done [or intend to do] to warn others about the cult you have escaped?

the unfortunate fact of life is that we tend to look only at our own personal benefits from leaving the cult if not careful.

or we give up after a failed attempt.

Vernon Williams

We started our site:

http://jwmidwest.com/index.asp

I talk to everyone about the JWs.

Here is a wierd thing to me: I have talked to several pastors about comming to thier churches to discuss the JWs. No one is interested. The reason I think is this: The JWs do not have enough "effect" on thier flocks to cause a concern. The Witnessess are not even a blip on the radar of the average person.

A few thoughts,

V

37

The Power of the Question: what most are missing

by Vernon Williams in

i want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.. in the interactions one has with a jw, no matter what level in the org.

or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered: .

whomever controls the question controls all.. the jws are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation.

Vernon Williams

I want to thank everyone interested in this thread for thier input.

If anyone wants a further dialoge, PM me....if "PM" means personal message.

Wishing all well,

V

37

The Power of the Question: what most are missing

by Vernon Williams in

i want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.. in the interactions one has with a jw, no matter what level in the org.

or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered: .

whomever controls the question controls all.. the jws are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation.

Vernon Williams

I was starting this thread for those interested in "strengthening" their presentation. Especially with family members.

Of all the methods of presenting evidence to JWs, this seems the strongest to me.

It is not about controlling someone: just the discussion.

I wish I had realized this point five years ago.

I DA'ed myself (I think I was DF'ed, also....) with just a couple of concerns: little hard fact. Most folks, so it seems, spend a lot of time aquiring data which I did not. That data with control and you have strength.

Data apart from strength and you have a weak opinion.

Gotta go to the hatchery.

Will look at this thread late, late night.

Yours in this Journey,

V

37

The Power of the Question: what most are missing

by Vernon Williams in

i want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.. in the interactions one has with a jw, no matter what level in the org.

or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered: .

whomever controls the question controls all.. the jws are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation.

Vernon Williams

Slim,

Usually we are talking three "naratives:"

Scriptural

Historic

Free Will

The JWs are using perversions of the above to control the minds and lives of others.

An individual refuting the JW position in any of the areas above is not out to control the mind of the other: they are simply broadening the ability of tha person to use thier mind with less restrictions.

"Freedom is the obligation to do what we should not the release to do as we want."

Alsi, truth is truth is truth aside from any narrative.

If I state: Oxygen is a part of our atmosphere....just blurt it out.....am I wrong about this just because it is not in a setting?

And, what is the reason you would resist "tools" designed to assist a person having the ability to go one on one with a representatives of a destructive cult?

Yours,

V

37

The Power of the Question: what most are missing

by Vernon Williams in

i want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.. in the interactions one has with a jw, no matter what level in the org.

or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered: .

whomever controls the question controls all.. the jws are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation.

Vernon Williams

Narc,

This idea of mine is not about controling someone's mind.

It is about controlling the discussion by turning the Witness's greatest strength back on them. Defeending objective truth is not mind control.

How is defending the date 586/7 as the fall of Jeruselem against 607 mind control?

V

37

The Power of the Question: what most are missing

by Vernon Williams in

i want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.. in the interactions one has with a jw, no matter what level in the org.

or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered: .

whomever controls the question controls all.. the jws are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation.

Vernon Williams

Not once, constantly.

The key is to end the conversation once the question is lost. Just stop.

People can not do this. They feel compelled to "sum up."

Interaction with the JWs is a chess game. Here's the deal: we already know "both sides of the board." We know the counter arguemts. The info. The History. The Bible. All of it. And, truth, the real, objective truth, is on our side. Yet, somehow, we "loose."

What we are "loosing" is not the argument. We are loosing the ability to control the result.

That is because we loose the question.

It sounds to simple to be true.

It is true. And, we must fight the programed nature of conversation...the give and take....the politeness of it all.....it does not work, here, in this debate with the Witnessess.

We have to control the result by controlling the process.

The key to that is maintaining control of thw question.

V

2

Welcome Newbies and Lurkers!!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

i haven't been on here very regular lately, and have missed welcoming many of you to the forum, and for that i feel bad because so many of you are new to me.

so i wanted to welcome each and everyone of you that have been brave enough to post.

Vernon Williams

Amen.

37

The Power of the Question: what most are missing

by Vernon Williams in

i want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.. in the interactions one has with a jw, no matter what level in the org.

or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered: .

whomever controls the question controls all.. the jws are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation.

Vernon Williams

We used this AS JWs but, do we use it in "sparing" with JWs. Most, from the result I have seen, do not.

And, yes, it has a "sales" aspect...however, think about sales: what is the first rule on a question that is in opposition to your presentation: ignore it. Sales has to do with overcomming objections to purchasing whatever we are selling. Not question control as a specific goal.

This abiltity to use the question: to control it, hold it, and learn what to do when we loose the control of the question is not a part of a normal human interaction. We must learn, if we are to gain a greater control of the outcome of a serious conversation with JWs the "Art of the Question."

Until one does this he will never be effective in a discussion, an argument, or, my favorite, an outright intellectial brawl....man are those fun!

Anyhow....

Commments?

V

37

The Power of the Question: what most are missing

by Vernon Williams in

i want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.. in the interactions one has with a jw, no matter what level in the org.

or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered: .

whomever controls the question controls all.. the jws are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation.

Vernon Williams

To All

I want to make a statement, and, if there is any interest, develope it a bit.

In the interactions one has with a JW, no matter what level in the Org. or what the topic is, this needs to be remembered:

Whomever controls the question controls all.

The JWs are trained to control the result of the conversation through argument manipulation. The main tool in this regard is taking control of "the question." Most think they only need the "right" answer or present an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove thier point.

Wrong.

The JW will just continue to question until he finds a weak point and then open that until it is wedged open enough to allow an escape.

Only, and, I mean ONLY if you control the question and never give it back to the JW is there a hope of making progress.

Well, that is my basic premise.

I have a difficult time, due to the "time-less-ness" of my present circumstance to follow threads in a progressive manner. I will do my best, if anyone is interested, to pursue this idea.

Yours in this Journey,

v